Curse

wheel · Jul 08, 2005, 11:57 PM // 23:57

I am writing this thread to clear up some misconceptions about Droknar's Forge rushes. My in game name is Slash Dot. I am a legitimate Forge rusher. I don't rush much lately, but I still follow the topic frequently.

First, I am going to address the topic of scamming within the Droknar's Forge rushing industry. I say industry because it is a very viable way for people to make money. I know this because I have 1300k sitting in my storage and RP characters from my Forge Rushing enterprise. It also presents many opportunities for would-be scammers to make a fast buck as well, which is unfortunate, but completely avoidable through rational thinking and this guide. To spot and stop a scammer, follow the following guide.

1. How to spot a Droknar's Forge Rush Scammer

A scammer who wants to make a quick buck at Beacon's Perch only has to meet one requirement, and that is to have a Warrior on level 20. They don't have to have the know how or even the skills. All they have to do is take your money up front and run. For example, here's an advertisement from a known scammer. Smell fishy? It sure does. Let's look at why.

Running to Camp Rankor to Droknar's Forge for 3k now -> 2k later - 30 minutes or money back [Whisper Me]

To spot a scammer ask the following questions:

Are they charging up front? First requirement of being a scam.
How long do they take for the run? If they don't know how long it takes or it takes more than 30 minutes, find another rusher.
Do they know what the zones are between Beacon's Perch and Droknar's Forge? Hint: Answer is Lornar's Pass, Dreadnought's Drift, Snake Dance, Camp Rankor [Outpost], and Talus Chute. If they don't know anything about it, they're scamming.
Do people start scream out "PERSON X IS SCAMMING!!" whenever that person advertises?
Ask them what level their tactics are on. If they don't have anything in tactics, ask them how they prevent knockdown. No answer? Move on, this one's a scammer.

This is for when you're already on the run and they charge at Snake Dance or some other place between Beacon's Perch and Rankor. Most of the people who charge at Snake Dance are legitimate, but some rush you to Snake Dance then take your money and run.

Are they having difficulty with the run? If they are, they may just be new to rushing, or they may just be bad because they're only there to scam you.
Do they know what the zones are called? If not, they probably are scamming you.
Do they act like they know about what parts are difficult and what parts are easy? If they don't know what makes Snake Dance difficult, for instance (knockdown), they are probably scamming you.

If someone is advertising payment at Rankor, that person is almost certainly legitimate, because the rush from Rankor to the Forge is extremely easy. They would be stupid to take half your money at Rankor and ditch you because they would earn the other half easily going to the Forge.

2. For the question as to WHY some people want to be rushed to the forge, there are many reasons.

To get the Droknar's Forge armor early in the game. This is done for multiple reasons
- To not have to waste money on multiple sets of armor while you are leveling up naturally through missions, quests, and killing mobs.
- To have the best armor in the game (armor level wise) early on in the game to level up faster
To capture skills beyond Droknar's Forge. There are multiple professions that most skills for a given attribute line are not available for a player until much later in the game. They may not want to waste skill points or questing time on an attribute line that they don't like playing. Or, what's even more common, is capturing skills for PvP play.
To level up quickly while leaving missions and quests available for "Free XP/Skill Points." A lot of players don't want to waste all of their quest XP on the low levels because they get more XP from killing mobs on lower levels. That's why it's advantageous not to ascend until level 20. Say you have to kill 2000 of Monster X to get from level 15 to level 20, which will net you 50,000 XP. Or you could simply ascend at level 15 and get 50,000 XP that way. But, when you kill those 2000 Monster X's, you may only get 30,000 XP (not exact numbers obviously, but you get my point). The same thing holds true for quests and missions. You would get an entire extra skill point by simply holding off on missions until you reach level 20 because of the extra mobs you would kill pre level 20. Now, you may be asking, how does getting rushed to Droknar's forge let a level 5 level up quickly? Simple. You can team up with henchmen and level up outside of Droknar's Forge/Port Sledge. It's very easy XP, and you can even browse forums while the henchmen kill stuff for you.
To watch! If you have never seen a Droknar's Forge rush before, it is something to behold. I instruct all of my customers to simply die and watch me run when I'm starting my journey, because I know that it's great fun to watch someone run. I enjoyed it thoroughly the first time I ran, and I know everyone who watches me enjoys the show.

Now, that's just a few reasons why someone would want to be rushed to Droknar's Forge. The only reasons AGAINST people being rushed have to do with what the Devs intended and how the game is meant to be played, which is complete idiocy. If the devs did not intend for these rushes to happen, they wouldn't have gone out of their way to design the pass in the first place.

In the future, I will be updating my guide with how to report scammers. I will also be compiling a list of players who I know to be reputable rushers. Also, I have a list of players who I know to have scammed in the past; just PM me on the forums and I will forward the list to you. I hope that this guide has helped you.

chaos dragoon · Jul 09, 2005, 12:03 AM // 00:03

nice post some of my friends got scammed,they had to pay half at snakes dance and after they payed the guy left them to die,1.5k per person

Crix Lionheart · Jul 09, 2005, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Insightful.

dansamy · Jul 09, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

It is a great show to watch and as soon as my new PvE monk hits Beacon's, I'll get a rush for him, too. I have taken 2 characters thru the game on the usual route. One went the scenic way via ALL the quests between missions and the other left presearing at 3 and did missions only. My 3rd character, mes/nec, got a Droknar's rush and is quite happy wearing her lingerie while fighting monsters. I don't take tweaked characters into low-level arenas to gank them. I don't even PvP with my PvE characters.

Aracos79 · Jul 09, 2005, 12:14 AM // 00:14

While I certainly commend this thread in it's intention of protecting players from scammers, I also feel compelled to once again register my objections to Forge running in general. Yes I know the arguments in favor. Yes I know that many people who get rushed are people who already finished the game once. But allow me to make a few points illustrating my objections.

- I simply can't condone the practice of skipping more than half the game simply to satisfy someone's impatience. Do you want to skip to halftime in a football game just because "I've played football before"? Playing the game with a different class is a totally new experience. Playing a warrior is different than a monk, or a ranger, etc. It's not just the same thing over again because you are forced to approach it differently.
- Second, as the OP is addressing, this practice has created an entire "industry" of scammers and cheats. Why expose players to this when it's simply not needed? If players couldn't be rushed, they wouldn't have to worry about being scammed. I would argue that it is in the best interest of the whole community that this not be possible.
- Finally, this practice has made the lower level arenas basically pointless, as now they are filled with level 10 characters with max damage weapons and Forge armor. The low level arenas are supposed to be for low level combat, not max damage slugfests. I can get that in Lion's Arch.

I know this won't change the mind of dedicate Forge runners like the OP. And once again I would like to commend the OP on his intentions. So long as this practice is possible, someone needs to try and police it. I simply wanted an opportunity to clearly articulate my objections.

silvertemplar · Jul 09, 2005, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Very interesting and useful, now i know how not to look like a scammer...err rusher..err nevermind :P

dansamy · Jul 09, 2005, 12:22 AM // 00:22

I don't want to buy umpteen armor sets between Ascalon, LA, Desert and Droknar's. I'd rather get my high level armor ASAP and just buy 2 sets of armor, 3 if I decide later to get 15k/piece for that character.

DeFi · Jul 09, 2005, 12:23 AM // 00:23

I recieved my first ever droknars rush from Slash Dot here

By far the best rusher I've seen.

I have been scammed once after that, but the ideas outlined in his post are great for spotting a scammer.

Lost · Jul 09, 2005, 12:24 AM // 00:24

The only people I do not want being rushed are those that just bought the game. Everyone who has beaten the game at least once can rush all they want. The last thing we need is even more clueless people in the southern shiverpeak/fire islands missions.

wheel · Jul 09, 2005, 12:25 AM // 00:25

agree to disagree :-) i know I won't change many people's minds, but it's good for everyone to be educated as to the issues around them. and thank you for your complements for the first half of the thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aracos79

- I simply can't condone the practice of skipping more than half the game simply to satisfy someone's impatience. Do you want to skip to halftime in a football game just because "I've played football before"? Playing the game with a different class is a totally new experience. Playing a warrior is different than a monk, or a ranger, etc. It's not just the same thing over again because you are forced to approach it differently.
- Second, as the OP is addressing, this practice has created an entire "industry" of scammers and cheats. Why expose players to this when it's simply not needed? If players couldn't be rushed, they wouldn't have to worry about being scammed. I would argue that it is in the best interest of the whole community that this not be possible.
- Finally, this practice has made the lower level arenas basically pointless, as now they are filled with level 10 characters with max damage weapons and Forge armor. The low level arenas are supposed to be for low level combat, not max damage slugfests. I can get that in Lion's Arch.

but as a forge rusher, i'll state my arguments against.

Players who are still rushed still have to complete the storyline to ascend, capture certain skills, change their secondary profession, and complete the +15 attribute quests, so it's not like they get rushed to Droknar's Forge and skip over Kryta completely. Forcing the players to go the storyline first without allowing them the option for paying for a rush is something I would expect from other games. Guild Wars is supposed to have less grind, not more, and forcing players to go through a linear plotline for 2, 3, 4 times even when the player doesn't want to do PvE at ALL is pure grind. They will still have to learn how to play the class to finish missions/quests/whatever.
scamming will occur on every level no matter what opportunities are out there. if it wasn't forge rushes, it would be 100k+ trades or item swapping. because there is a potential scam possiblity for 100k+ item trades, it doesn't mean we should prevent them outright.
this is the only one where i am ambivalent to. i do not see the point to early pvp arenas because it does not teach you anything about pvp at all. i have never been a fan of low level pvp, because there's no reason for me to play with a limited skillset with unskilled players. it teaches me nothing. if someone wants to get their kicks out of playing against noobs, that's fine with me. they probably aren't good at hoh/gvg anyway.

Algren Cole · Jul 09, 2005, 12:28 AM // 00:28

why are you assuming that only lvl20 warriors can make the run?

wheel · Jul 09, 2005, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

why are you assuming that only lvl20 warriors can make the run?

for a potential customer wanting to be rushed, they would much rather trust a level 20 character than a level 19 character to be rushed. so a scammer would much rather be on his level 20 character than a level 19 character when he would be scamming.

QTFsniper · Jul 09, 2005, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

why are you assuming that only lvl20 warriors can make the run?

That is usually all you see. If you have another class that can solo run it in about 20-25 minutes, then share the build?

Jul 09, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

why are you assuming that only lvl20 warriors can make the run?

Because the mobs in those spots require Balanced Stance, a speed buff and armor to get through easily. A Warrior/Monk is the best class in the game for survivability against Physical Damage, and thats what you want for a Forge run.

silvertemplar · Jul 09, 2005, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Being somewhat neutral towards this whole rushing effect i do however believe that the amount of rushing-services in this game will be directly proportionate to the amount of grind. [grind = repetitive and/or pain in the a$$ activites required to achieve a certain goal].

Now if we go back to what GuildWars' self designated moto is [or was?] : "No Grind" .

Therefore my logical conclusion is that any activity that prevents grind or at least dampens it must be intentional and something A.Net should be supporting [indirectly].

Jelloblimp · Jul 09, 2005, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

(...)
In the future, I will be updating my guide with how to report scammers and compiling a list of known scammers to avoid. I hope that this guide has helped you.

Be sure to check with a mod before posting names (not sure if its allowed & would be a shame if thread got locked/deleted).

My main(only) gripe about rushing to Droknars is the level 3-7(?) people that get best armor & some elite skills then go crush newbies in Ascalon arena.
(Since you no longer get xp in arena you dont level up & can be forever in Ascalon arena).

shinseikaze · Jul 09, 2005, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaos dragoon

nice post some of my friends got scammed,they had to pay half at snakes dance and after they payed the guy left them to die,1.5k per person

Why would you pay someone at Snake Dance its not even an outpost.........you pay at Camp Rankor....so even if the guy dumps you....you can easily find a party to take you to forge

Dalia · Jul 09, 2005, 01:21 AM // 01:21

I've finished the game twice and now I'm just popping around the game world, helping my chums advance, saving plat and earning skill points. Although I feel neutral about rushing, I *have* noticed more low-level players trying to do high-level missions, usually to disastrous affect. It's obvious to me that a substantial number of new players *are* rushing their first character -- the questions they ask and their lack of skill prove it. That's a pity, because it affects the success of the groups they join and because they miss out on experiencing the full storyline in the order it was intended to be experienced. Which is really missing out.

Dalia

wheel · Jul 09, 2005, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinseikaze

Why would you pay someone at Snake Dance its not even an outpost.........you pay at Camp Rankor....so even if the guy dumps you....you can easily find a party to take you to forge

why would you pay someone at snake dance? because if the customer pays at rankor, there is nothing stopping him from skipping out on payment once we get to rankor. it's infinitely easier to get form rankor to forge than it is from beacons perch to forge. so smart rushers charge at snake dance to avoid getting scammed.

LathalDraugr · Jul 09, 2005, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

I am writing this thread to clear up some misconceptions about Droknar's Forge rushes. My in game name is Slash Dot. I am a legitimate Forge rusher. I don't rush much lately, but I still follow the topic frequently.

First, I am going to address the topic of scamming within the Droknar's Forge rushing industry. I say industry because it is a very viable way for people to make money. I know this because I have 1300k sitting in my storage and RP characters from my Forge Rushing enterprise. It also presents many opportunities for would-be scammers to make a fast buck as well, which is unfortunate, but completely avoidable through rational thinking and this guide. To spot and stop a scammer, follow the following guide.

I know you're a much more experienced rusher than I am but I'd like to add my own points looking from the perspective of a recently started rusher and commend you for making things much easier on all of us who offer legitamate services.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

1. How to spot a Droknar's Forge Rush Scammer

A scammer who wants to make a quick buck at Beacon's Perch only has to meet one requirement, and that is to have a Warrior on level 20. They don't have to have the know how or even the skills. All they have to do is take your money up front and run. For example, here's an advertisement from a known scammer. Smell fishy? It sure does. Let's look at why.

Unfortunately not all scammers are intelligent enough to even bother using a primary warrior or a Mo/W, many try and convince people that their R/E is a reputable rusher. That alone should be an obvious give away for most people but sometimes people who know nothing about rushing fall for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

Are they charging up front? First requirement of being a scam.

Definately, no reputable runner should charge anything upfront.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

How long do they take for the run? If they don't know how long it takes or it takes more than 30 minutes, find another rusher.

If a normal run takes 30 minutes there's certainly something wrong but I'd be hard pressed to believe even you have never had a run where things have gone a bit wrong. I usually ask that the people I'm rushing have at least 30 minutes so that in the event that things go wrong they can plan for a worst case scenario. (FWIW most of my runs take about 22-24 minutes or so barring serious mistakes since I'm fairly patient and usually stop and chat to the people I'm running while waiting on recharge)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

Do they know what the zones are between Beacon's Perch and Droknar's Forge? Hint: Answer is Lornar's Pass, Dreadnought's Drift, Snake Dance, Camp Rankor [Outpost], and Talus Chute. If they don't know anything about it, they're scamming.

Certainly any good runner should know where they are running. Those names are burned into my brain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

Do people start scream out "PERSON X IS SCAMMING!!" whenever that person advertises?

When people say that a person is scamming you should certainly take note, however if the person does not run purely refferals from people they trust you may well end up with a person screaming incoherantly in all caps that that person is scamming. This doesn't neccesarily mean they are a scammer they may just be intolerant of rude and abusive "customers". I have had it happen to me when I refused to run certain people, although when I calmly and coherantly stated why I refused to run that person about 5 people who knew me and knew I was genuine stepped in to put that person right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

Ask them what level their tactics are on. If they don't have anything in tactics, ask them how they prevent knockdown. No answer? Move on, this one's a scammer.

That's definately a good one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

This is for when you're already on the run and they charge at Snake Dance or some other place between Beacon's Perch and Rankor. Most of the people who charge at Snake Dance are legitimate, but some rush you to Snake Dance then take your money and run.

If you say so I'll believe you but I can't really understand why scammers would bother running people to Snake Dance then abandon them. But then perhaps it just indicates that scammers don't even know how to scam effectively since if you can make it to Snake Dance with a little practice and effort you should be able to make it all the way to Droknars. Maybe it's just my experience from the European server but over here there's only usually one or two districts open so a scammer stands out and runing only as far as Snake Dance seems like a lot of effort for something that will net you very little money per day relative to doing real runs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

Are they having difficulty with the run? If they are, they may just be new to rushing, or they may just be bad because they're only there to scam you.

If they do seem to die a lot the easiest thing to do would be to ask them if they are new. I've only been rushing for just over a week but I've become vastly more experienced even in that length of time and no doubt I've got a long way to go to be as good as you are. That said although I used to die a lot an even still from time to time mess up I'm not afraid to admit I'm not the most experienced runner so please don't hold lack of practice against a new runner and assume or accuse without basis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

Do they know what the zones are called? If not, they probably are scamming you.

Agree completely, even some scammers will know the names of the areas so if they don't I would be very surprised if they were genuine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

Do they act like they know about what parts are difficult and what parts are easy? If they don't know what makes Snake Dance difficult, for instance (knockdown), they are probably scamming you.

I would agree but I would also like to point out that different people may have trouble with different areas depending on build and experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

If someone is advertising payment at Rankor, that person is almost certainly legitimate, because the rush from Rankor to the Forge is extremely easy. They would be stupid to take half your money at Rankor and ditch you because they would earn the other half easily going to the Forge.

Certainly agree with this. Unfortunately I stopped offering that payment scheme as soon as two people jumped out at Rankor to avoid paying anything. So I would think when dealing with unknown people most runners who are still interested in making money from runs would not offer this arrangement. Having said that, if people I'm running agree to pay some in Snake Dance I am usually quite happy to wait until Droknars for payment as the kind of person who doesn't try to negotiate tends to be the most reliable at paying.

I would also like to point out a few tips of my own for spotting scammers.

Look at how they advertise, I've seen a few scammers try to copy my "advert" and attempt to get more victims that way. If their style looks very similar to an already existing runner it may be that they are attempting to emulate that runner and get more victims that way.

Another good point is to ask a trusted runner who is on the same server/ is on at similar times or even any player who has been hanging around Beacons Perch for a while. I've seen more than a few people who I've strongly suspected to be scammers but been unable to warn people in case it seems like I'm trying to falsely accuse the oppostion and in any case have had no evidence. I've later found out in two cases that these people have in fact scammed people and have ended up running the people they have scammed.

There's also the too good to be true point. If someone offers to run people for 500g upfront and 500 at Droknars they're unlikely to be genuine. While I know I and at least a few other runners do run people for free or for much lower prices, I never advertise for low prices or free runs, I usually just join a decent group who's looking for a runner and then do the run anyway.